Luftwaffe over claim

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21_Sokol1
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Luftwaffe over claim

Post by 21_Sokol1 »

Note que os pilotos alemães foram condecorados por estas kills:
8th Air Force raids on Schweinfurt in 1943 are interesting, as are the victories awarded over Dieppe in August 1942

In 1943, the USAAF flew 2 raids on the German Ball Bearing plants at Schweinfurt, on 17 August, 376 B-17 Flying Fortress's were involved, USAAF losses were about 60 B-17's plus many which were scrapped upon landing. This was a loss rate of around 16%.
However, OKL awarded 94 B-17 and 4 P-47 Victories. Given the ability of the Luftwaffe to investigate the damage on the ground, how do they explain a 50% over claim.

On 14 October, a second raid was mounted, this was an even greater disaster in that of the 291 Bombers sent out, another 60 were destroyed in Combat, nearly 20% losses. But OKL was to excel and awarded 146 B-17 Kills, half of the attacking force, and once again it was within their ability to examine wreckage.

Both raids were intercepted outside Allied fighter cover, so the Luftwaffe Interceptors could operate without continual harassment, so how did they manage to have approved about 250 Kills as against actual losses of 120
http://www.1jma.dk/articles/1jmaarticle ... twaffe.htm

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28_Condor
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Re: Luftwaffe over claim

Post by 28_Condor »

S!

Acredito que as perdas aliadas nesses raids estejam mesmo pra lá de subdimensionadas... como dizem, numa guerra a primeira vitima é a verdade.

Mas os dois lados sempre mentem, talvez um número a meio caminho disso seja mais razoável.


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Re: Luftwaffe over claim

Post by 31_CrossBones »

:Skull_anim:

S!
28_Condor wrote: Mas os dois lados sempre mentem, !
Pois é, mas a história é sempre contada pelos vencedores :)

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Furias
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Re: Luftwaffe over claim

Post by Furias »

S!

Com certeza as perdas em bombardeiros foram mais do que suficientes para forçar os americanos a repensar a sua estratégia .

A perda total de b-17 s na Europa ( incluindo acidentes , fogo amigo ) ficou em torno de 40 % .

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21_Sokol1
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Re: Luftwaffe over claim

Post by 21_Sokol1 »

Schweinfurt assim como Ploesti foram desastres para a USAAF. Mas o artigo questiona é o "exagero" dos pilotos alemães - pelo visto oficialmente endossado, outro exemplo:
On 18 December 1939, the RAF decided to mount a raid on the German fleet at Wilhelm shaven and orders were drafted for 24 Wellington Medium bombers to carry out the raid. 9 aircraft from 149 Squadron, 9 from 9 Squadron and 6 from 37 Squadron were selected to "Attack enemy warships in the Schillig Roads or Wilhelmshaven. Great care is to be taken to ensure that no bombs fall on shore"

While 24 Wellington's took off, 2 from 149 Sqn returned to base early leaving 22 to carry on. The bombers managed to successfully fly over the German Fleet, but their Orders about bombing German soil caused the abortion of the raid as the leader decided the ships, tied up in Port where too close to shore to be bombed. It was only after they turned for home did the German Fighters attack.

The ensuing massacre saw thew shooting down of 10 Wellingtons, nearly 50% of the attacking force, however the Fighters claimed to have destroyed 34 Victories, over 150% of the attackers though OKL pruned this down to 26, still more than the force started with.
Neste caso derrubaram 10 Wellingtons a mais dos que os efetivamente chegaram na area do alvo...

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28_Condor
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Re: Luftwaffe over claim

Post by 28_Condor »

S!

Pois é, se voce cortar pela metade a alegação alemã passaria de 34 kills para 17, bem menos do que o alegado pela luftwaffe mas mais do que a versão inglesa :)



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