VKB Gladiator joystick project

DHRF · Post by **DHRF** » 15 Jun 2016 13:08

review.....

VKB Sim Gladiator Pro Joystick: The Good, the Bad, and the Customizable

http://nerdtechy.com/vkb-sim-gladiator- ... ick-review

but the Saitek x56 have no bad on the review title......

the site disclaimer explain why....

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DHRF · Post by **DHRF** » 15 Jun 2016 13:10

21_Sokol1 wrote:Depois vejo quanto fica da China.

you mean Argentina?

I will be forced to implement exclusivity.........

Post by **21_Sokol1** » 15 Jun 2016 14:14

No, China. Argentina is more "out of way" than Amazon, Argentina só servirá para o Condor que tem uns primos lá (e umas conexões com o Paraguai).

Se acreditasse que haveria interesse iniciaria uma petição online para algum distribuidor de hardware local, como a C3Tech, trazer pelo menos a versão Ching Ling da Asia Games.

Mas conhecendo a "comunidade simuleira" como conheço, melhor deixar para lá.

DHRF · Post by **DHRF** » 15 Jun 2016 14:53

21_Sokol1 wrote:No, China. Argentina is more "out of way" than Amazon, Argentina só servirá para o Condor que tem uns primos lá (e umas conexões com o Paraguai).

Se acreditasse que haveria interesse iniciaria uma petição online para algum distribuidor de hardware local, como a C3Tech, trazer pelo menos a versão Ching Ling da Asia Games.

Mas conhecendo a "comunidade simuleira" como conheço, melhor deixar para lá.

my plan is that the simmers have quality hardware, I will never will act like that my frind

Post by **21_Sokol1** » 16 Jul 2016 14:29

Informação adicional sobre o Gladiator (GT)- nem vou traduzir para Pt porque ninguem vai ler mesmo...

EDIT - Versão oficial do "777" - com alguns pontos ligeirament diferentes da versão do UIV - postada no forum em Inglês da VKB:

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2282

BTW - Que apelou feio neste comentário:

"There is really only one in the same category and that is the cheap Saitek Aviator which was a disaster."

O Aviator AV8R - principalmente a versão -01 (PC) - pode ser considerado um bom joystick "entry-level" com uma funcionabilidade melhor que a média da categoria, tanto é que continua em produção nas versões estragadas "console compatível" até hoje.
E teve uma versão exclusiva "Pacific" com um grip baseado no do F-4U Corsair para ser vendido em pacote com um jogo "shoot-up in the air".

Lembro que em testes dos Russos, lá por 2000 e qualquer coisa, o AV8R-01 apresentou uma linearidade melhor no JoyTester2 do que o X-52 "vanila".

==========================================================

Pontos a destacar do Gladiator:

- O "dampening" do retorno ao centro (vide vídeo).
- Posição central com menor resistência, para facilitar pequenas correções de mira nos "warbirds".
- Possibilidade de instalar no Gladiator como upgrade o all metal CAM gimbal do PRO.
- Programação e ajustes (deadzone, calibração) salvos na memória do controlador, assim pode usar o joystick em vários computadores sem precisar calibrar/programar nada.
- "PnP" - não precisa instalar drivers, nem de programa ocupando quase "100MB de memória"(TARGET) rodando em background.

Since the idea of a Gladiator to its appearance in the form of finished product took two years.

We did not make Gladiator development a secret and share information about the creation of this joystick with virtual pilots community.
We are very pleased that our development has caused quite a lot of interest on your part.
In this topic we will briefly explain what in the end we have got and what a Gladiator.
The format "question and answer" most suited for the occasion.
So, let's begin.

Question: Why was chosen design in the style of aircraft of World War II?

Answer: There are several reasons.
Firstly, the WKB team prefers simulators with piston engines aircraft's and early jet.
WWII - a part of our history that should not be forgotten.
Second, the market is not saturated with joysticks with this design.
There is only Saitek Aviator and there is fierce competition (in "jet/"spaceships" joystick design).
But developing this model, we tried to put a functional joystick, sufficient not only for the simulation of WWII.
Fortunately, the capabilities of our controllers permit.

Question: What is the mechanism of loading (gimbal) located inside the joystick Gladiator?

Answer: WKB was one of the main developers of Defender Cobra M5 joystick.
For 5 years of production and operation of this joystick, we studied the strengths and weaknesses of its design.
We made a number of improvements and improved design of the loading mechanism (gimbal).

Replaced plastic material. Now loading mechanism (gimbal) is made of glass fiber reinforced plastic, which is sturdier.
On the gimbal axes are made grooves for the lubrication of this axes.
Grease is not squeezed out of the holes and running uniformly over its entire surface.
We used a thick damping grease, which makes the course knob "viscous".
We also improved the mold for casting, trying to fit as much as possible the details of each other.
It was finalized finalized twist (rudder) mechanism.
Gladiator twist is reinforced and has a stiffer spring.
This video demonstrates the difference between the behavior of the Gladiator loading mechanism (gimbal) from its predecessor - Defender Cobra M5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7L_AmneTuU[/video]

Question: Why the central position of Gladiator handle Gladiator has an area of very soft run with virtually no resistance.
This is backlash?

Answer: No, we did it on purpose.
Analysis of virtual pilots preferences showed that many prefer sticks with a very soft behavior at the center.
The strong "step" (of other joysticks), which holds the handle in the center prevents accurate aiming.
To deflect the grip a very small angle it is necessary to make an effort to overcome this "step". In one way this makes feel the center "step" on joystick axis, but on other way prevents precise control in approximately central position.
What is important is balance. And we have tried to implement it. To give priority to the soft behavior handle in the middle, rather than clear and hard to return to the center.
Appointment damper grease - remove the "emptiness" of the movement handle in a near-central zone.
We understand pilots like of such behavior, whose plane hangs "on the handle."
And for the pilots with little experience this can cause problems.
In this case, we recommend to increase the pitch and roll axes dead zone using WIZZO utility.
In the (default) factory settings, it has a very small value.
Again, we did it on purpose to give the fullest possible axes control zone roll and pitch.

Question: Why in joystick factory (default) settings is a fairly large value of the dead zone put the on twist axis (rudder)?

Answer: This is done to parry "parasitic" twist deviations when the pilot operates only on the roll \ pitch axes. You can change "twist" deadzone by using WIZZO program.

Question: Why the joystick grip in the center position is rotated by a small angle counterclockwise.

Answer: This is related to ergonomics. It is much easier to keep the grip when she has a little twist counterclockwise. In many real-world aircraft the grip set just so, with a little twist.

Question: Is it possible to connected control additional devices to Gladiator?

Answer: Yes.

In the panel in front of Gladiator is located two connectors.
In "Pedals" connector can be connected the rudder pedals VKB T-Rudder and WKB-Mk18-Mk21 pedals.
"SYS" connector is for connecting control devices that still in development - throttle and additional multifunction panel.

Q: What options are available to upgrade Gladiator?

Answer: Gladiator laid enough rich features upgrade.
You can replace the joystick gimbal with all metal (CAM) centering mechanism, making your joystick a Gladiator Pro.

Gladiator PRO all metal centering mechanism (gimbal) has a detachable rod for grip.
With a adapter you can install the grip of Defender Cobra M5 or Trustmaster Warthog (Cougar) joysticks.
WKB is also developing a new multi-function grip for lovers of modern combat aircraft or space simulators.
Gladiator controller allows you to connect additional axes and buttons. Controller PCB is marked with the appropriate space for additional sealing connectors.

Q: What controller is installed in the Gladiator joystick?
Answer: Gladiator (controller) is based on platform of our own development - NJoy32.

It is a powerful 32-bit ARM-controller. The controller operates at the USB-protocol. The main principle of the controller - software and driver independence.
This means that for normal operation of the device does not need install third-party drivers and software.
The controller has the ability to upgrade firmware via USB.
In Gladiator KG12 grip is set another microcontroller.
It collects information of twist axis (rudder) and button pressing on grip and sends it to the main controller via a digital protocol using a three-wire interface.

Question: What sensors are used?
A: Roll and pitch axis use separate non-contact magnetic sensors MaRS (Magneto Resistive Sensor).

The concept of "one sensor for each axis" helps to eliminate parasitic influence of one axis to the other in case of wear joystick boot mechanism.
Total operating MaRS sensors showed his best side. High accuracy, linearity and stability - a "calling card" of MaRS probes.
MaRS sensor is also mounted on joystick twist axis (rudder).

In 2004 WKB became one of the first to use MARS sensors in pedals and joysticks.
Currently, we are the first to use high-precision non-contact sensor for the twist (rudder) in our first mass joystick.
Rudder axis just is important for aircraft operation as well was pitch and roll axes!
In addition to high-precision, non-contact twist (rudder) design greatly extends the life of the joystick.

Q: What is WIZZO?

Answer: WIZZO - is a utility designed to configure the joystick controller.

WIZZO has a simple and intuitive interface and currently implements the following functionality: calibration of the joystick axes, setting "dead zones", the reverse axes.
The utility has the ability to load and save profiles of axes and joystick buttons.
Also, using this tool, you can enter the joystick in firmware update mode.
WIZZO program is not necessary for the operation of the joystick.
She only writes data to controller memory.
Suffice it once to write the data and then never run the program WIZZO.
Due saved settings in its own non-volatile memory, the Gladiator will work the same on different computers and operating systems and does not require re-configuration and calibration.

WIZZO is available for download here http://ftp.vkb-sim.pro/Programms/

Question: Why WIZZO?

The answer: a Weapon Systems Officer ( "WSO", in English is pronounced "wizzo").
As called the weapons operator in airplanes and helicopters.
And also it's a great name for joystick configuration utility

Question: Is it possible configure Gladiator via VKB Device Config program?
Answer: Yes, you can.

A most complete joystick customization joystick is done with this program.
But VKB Device Config utility requires knowledge for working with her.
We recommend the use of this utility only for advanced users who are familiar with other products WKB.
Profiles configured in VKB Device Config program can be used in WIZZO.
In the near future we will prepare profiles that implement different functions for buttons and joystick axes.
It will be enough to select the appropriate profile and upload it to the controller Gladiator.
We started to develop the tool WIZZO PRO, which later will replaced VKB Device Config.

Q: Do I need calibrate the joystick in the Windows Control Panel?
Answer: Absolutely not!

Text in the balloon "For what?"

This joystick has its own calibration and produces ready-calibrated data to the operating system.

============================================================

Agora só falta o "primo do Condor" providenciar um para testes.

Post by **21_Sokol1** » 26 Jul 2016 10:43

A VKB 'tá fudida com o PR/partner que arrumou (o J.Willians da 777, que "fez o BoS para você").

andor wrote:
I just received my gladiator Pro today, but no manual was included.
Can I download one somewhere?

*******************************************************
Stratojet-Jason:

And how did you receive your Gladiator Pro? We have not shipped them yet.

Assinatura:
Jason -Visit Stratojet for all your VKB needs in North America - http://www.gostratojet.com
*************************************************************************

andor

Your sig says "Visit Stratojet for all your VKB needs in North America - http://www.gostratojet.com".

So as you might now have guessed i'm from that little insignificant bit outside of north america.

But hey, thanks, you've been absolutely no help at all.

E o mané ainda insistiu, pedindo "provas" de que o cara tinha comprado um Gladiator PRO...

andor wrote:
The gladiator pro is the all metal cam based gimbal with no twist, yes? I assure you this is what I recieved yesterday. I was after information regarding the different cams and springs.

Stratojet-Jason: Uh huh and how about a picture to prove you have a Gladiator Pro?

Obviamente ele comprou direto da VKB China - já que não vive na parte do mundo atendida pela Stratojet, cujo dono/PR deve achar que o mundo se resume a USA e seu quintal Canadá.

A sorte do cara é que dois usuários do forum, fans dos produtos VKB puderam ajudar - sabem mais sobre os produtos do que o PR.

40_Griffon · Post by **40_Griffon** » 27 Jul 2016 14:26

Ta precisando fazer um curso de Atendimento ao Consumidor

BTW, já saiu algum update pro Tlink para os "toe brakes"? Fiquei de arrumar essa porcaria pro meu amigo e acabei esquecendo.

Post by **21_Sokol1** » 27 Jul 2016 15:49

Não, mas a versão corrente 0.62.7 funciona bem (no DCS) com o T-Rudder Mk.II/III, já com o
Mk.IV da xabu com a nova controladora "Black Box", estão trabalhando numa atualização.

Post by **21_Sokol1** » 27 Jul 2016 18:34

Aqui o tradicional "chave Philips review" dos Russos:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/2579 ... ntry434372
http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/2579 ... ntry434385

E o JW ficou proibindo o UIV a postar fotos dos "gut's" do Gladiator...

Post by **21_Sokol1** » 28 Jul 2016 12:14

User video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyK6wGUPvXQ[/video]

Post by **21_Sokol1** » 29 Jul 2016 11:43

Esse "backlash" (folga) no centro do movimento do grip do Gladiator:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l91bvfoHfD0[/video]

Não é "defeito", é proposital.

UIV diz que num joystick "budget" (barato) com gimbal feito em plástico é impossível o mecanismo não ter folgas, já que as peças são injetadas em moldes e não cortadas por CNC.

Os fabricantes procuram esconder isso de várias formas, exemplo com uma deadzone expressiva não ajustável no firmmware - notavéis em joys Ching Ling como o "famoso" Leadership Cobra de má lembrança - ou com molas mais duras (Cougar) ou molas que "travam" o gimbal no centro - sistema de cone da Saitek - que tem o inconveniente de que para tirar o gimbal da posição central exige mais força e assim que sai desta posição essa força gera "over control".

O Gladiator é um joystick projetado com foco no dogfight WWII e não em "Kosmosimov" (ou F-1XY's fly-by-wire) então essa moleza
no centro - mais pronunciada no eixo Y - é para ajudar a manter a mira sobre o bandido.

O "King of the Hill" do deflection shoot no dogfight online (pelo menos no YT), Mk.Mr.X, usa a mais de 10 anos um CH Fighterstick, que é bem mole no centro.

Como a CH usa um "moderno" controlador USB 1.1 de 8 bits (256 pontos de resolução) portanto contemporanêo do Pentium II, Windows 98/Milleniun (Eka)... Ligou os eixos X e Y num controlador USB externo de ~12 bits.

Post by **21_Sokol1** » 30 Jul 2016 19:28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhlZHE4ZY-I#t=10[/video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhlZHE4ZY-I#t=10

Post by **21_Sokol1** » 31 Jul 2016 14:01

Pequena esperança para os "exilados do Mundo de Joysticks":

A Speedlink vendera a versão "budget" do Gladiator na Europa como:

AIRROW Flightstick

http://www.speedlink.com/?p=2&cat=214&pid=39315&paus=1

Engraçado é que pelo menos numa loja da Suiça a "capada" que deram nesta versão não refletiu em redução de preços, esta na pre-venda por ~102$.

Joysticks desta marca (que não fabrica nada, vende produtos OEM, tipo Leaderhip's) aparecem no mercado local, resta saber se os vendedores Gersom daqui vão querer investir num joystick que deve ter um custo para eles de 40/50$.

Post by **21_Sokol1** » 31 Jul 2016 19:11

21_Sokol1 wrote:Pre order na Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Gladiator-Joysti ... op?ie=UTF8

Enviam (para o restoftheworld), mas o frete é mais caro que a mercadoria: $99.99 + $132.59
Ai sairá por uns 1.800 Temer'ecas,

Just in case, interpretei isso errado.
Os 132.59 - que hoje são 134.23 - não é o frete, é o preço do Amazon Global Shipping de 20.05$ mais 114.18$ estimados da "contribuição para a maquina da corrupção" tupiniquim. (1)

Assim o Gladiator chegará por só 234.22$ - umas ~760,00 Temer'Reca$... que face ao preço de um Saitek FLY por aqui até não assusta tando (esse tem mais R$40,00 de SEDEX).

(1) Recentemente foi noticiado que teria sido julgado ilegal a cobrança de II sobre compras no exterior via Correio de até 100$ - já que as leis aqui são feitas para serem interpretadas como convenir e a Receita fazia a interpretação do asssunto do seu jeito.

http://zh.clicrbs.com.br/rs/vida-e-esti ... 40553.html

Alguém sabe se procede, ou é mais um dos tantos casos de "um juiz julgou, mas não colou"?

Post by **21_Sokol1** » 21 Aug 2016 18:47

Gladiator MOD "ON".

VKB Gladiator joystick project

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